NO MORE RANKING SYSTEM?! (Read)

Throughout the years, we’ve received immense love from every one of our readers. And we’re deeply thankful for the amount of support we got from the people who understand what we are all about. We appreciate, love and thank you all for these amazing years.

However we’ve received our own fair share of criticism as well. Our ranking system has always been controversial, and rightfully so. However the content within our analyses is the most important thing to us. We didn’t watch more than 30 to 40 individual live performances for each of these vocalists, more than 120 so far, for nothing. We care about each and every one of these vocalists. People might call us biased and if you know me, you know I hate to be called something I’m not. We’re not biased. Bias is not even listening or caring, it’s having a pre-conceived notion and sticking to it. We don’t do that. We give everyone a fair chance. We don’t have preferences, we don’t rank based on our taste or whom we like. We don’t dislike anybody or try to put anyone down.

But we understand that ranking vocalists isn’t the nicest thing to do. For a while now we’ve been thinking of eliminating the ranking system altogether. Truthfully, it’s counterproductive to rank vocalists against one another. That’s not what we’re about. We’re here to spread knowledge and educate people on vocal technique. We want people to be able to know what’s unhealthy and healthy for the voice. What can be dangerous and what’s good for you. We want the best not only for the fans, but for each of the vocalists we’ve analyzed. We spend so much time analyzing them, we truthfully grow attached to each one of them. I know I do.

So from now on, we won’t be ranking vocalists or trying to say someone is better than anybody else. We’re against fanwars and we don’t wish to fuel them. We want these rankings gone altogether. So from now, we’re going to simply label vocalists under their strongest qualities and stylistic choices. We won’t say who’s better than who, but we won’t label them by genre either. Instead we will re-label and re-organize them based on who prefers to sing within what range, in what way, what style and who’s developed their voice a specific way.

That does not mean that we don’t personally believe there is a more effective way to use the voice. We do and we stand by it. We stand by the fact that there are different types of techniques and ways to sing that a vocalist can choose and a vocalist who has more choices, has a bigger “tool belt” of choices to pick from. However even then, at the end of the day the choice is the vocalist’s and the vocalist’s only. If they choose to listen or choose to sing in one specific style, that’s their choice and we must respect that. However if they wish to change because they want to develop other ways to sing and other parts of their voices, that’s what we’re here for.

I know that change is hard and that many of you are our fans because of our ranking system. I don’t expect every one of you to stay with us through this change, as I know you like to know who’s better than who. But we feel as vocal instructors and vocalists ourselves that it is best to take this step forward and create a place that’s neutral in its narrative and positive in its message. We don’t want to fuel negativity. Who cares who’s better than who? Love your artist, support them and care about their vocal health, that’s all we want!

Our system goes now as follows with our criteria. The criteria will be updated in the front page as well. (Changes may still be made as this is the beginning of this only. You could call it a BETA mode right now.)

MH Vocalists: Mid-Range Head Voice Vocalists

Vocalists in this category haven’t developed their head voices very high but are able to use them within a relatively low to mid range in their voice type’s tessitura. They maintain connection at will and are able to access their head voices at will.

Sopranos: Up to at least D5 up to G5/G#5
Mezzo-Sopranos: Up to at least C5 up to F5/F#5
Tenors: Up to at least A4 up to D5/Eb5
Baritones: Up to at least F4 up to Bb4/B4

HV Vocalists: High Head Voice Vocalists

Vocalists in this category have developed a relaxed and open sound in their head voices. They can manipulate dynamics, qualities within their head voices, they maintain supported qualities and manipulate the placement in their head voices well.

Sopranos: Starting Around A5
Mezzo-Sopranos: Starting around G5
Tenors: Starting around E5
Baritones: Starting around C5

MB Vocalists: Mid-Range Belters

Vocalists within this category generally perform the best within their mid-belting mixed voice range. Once they go high, they might have issues with keeping their throats as opened as they were in their mid belting ranges. They must be able to produce resonance in their mixed voices to be classified in this category.

Sopranos: Up to at least C5 up to D5/Eb5
Mezzo-Sopranos: Up to at least Bb4 up to C5/C#5
Tenors: Up to at least G4 up to A4
Baritones: Up to at least Eb4 up to F4

HB Vocalists: High Range Belters

Vocalists in this category perform best and have the most ease within their upper mixed voice ranges. They are able to keep an opened sound without losing tone quality, without losing support and without losing volume while still being relaxed. They must be able to produce resonance in their mixed voices to be classified in this category.

Sopranos: Starting around E5
Mezzo-Sopranos: Starting around D5
Tenors: Starting around Bb4
Baritones: Starting around F#4

M Vocalists: Mid-Range Vocalists

Vocalists in this category are those with relatively narrow supported ranges, whose strengths lie in singing within an octave of their range without going too high or too low too often. They generally keep support within a mid one octave range, but outside of that strain can become more apparent and intense.

Sopranos: Falling somewhere within A3/Bb3 ~ Bb4/B4
Mezzo-Sopranos: Falling somewhere within G3/G#3 ~ G#4/A4
Tenors: Falling somewhere within E3 ~ F4/F#4
Baritones: Falling somewhere within C3 ~ C#4/D4

ML Vocalists: Mid-Low Range Vocalists

Vocalists in this category have somewhat developed their lower ranges, but could still further develop the strength in the vocal cord development, projection, support and connection as they descend lower in range.

Sopranos: Going down to about G#3/G3
Mezzo-Sopranos: Going down to about F#3/F3
Tenors: Going down to about C#3/C3
Baritones: Going down to about A2/G#2

LR Vocalists: Low Range Vocalists

Vocalists in this category generally develop their lower ranges well and are comfortable singing lower than most within their voice types. They have developed chest voices, sung without tension, with connection, projection and ease.

Sopranos: Anywhere starting on F#3 and below
Mezzo-Sopranos: Anywhere starting on E3 and below
Tenors: Anywhere starting on B2 and below
Baritones: Anywhere starting on G2 and below

S vocalists: Stylistic Vocalists

Vocalists within this category usually prefer to sing in a specific specialized generally breathy way, narrowing their genre to keep themselves true to their style. They can often prefer breathiness, soft singing, throatiness and falsetto over singing with more connection and belting with more openness/roundness in tone.

C Vocalists: Commercial Vocalists

Vocalists in this category lack in terms of clarity of tone and overall management of airflow. They don’t necessarily prefer stylistic qualities like breathiness or soft singing. Instead they prefer to sing in a way that’s specific to their own music only, preferring to sing with high larynxes, or more air pressure, etc.

MA Vocalists: Melismatic/Agile Vocalists

This category is exclusive for the vocalists who have learned to how to properly move their vocal cords from note to note, at the center of pitch, with precision, control and ease. They have flexible vocal cords that respond to changes in pitch without sliding through them, but instead hitting each single note at a time with accuracy.

WR vocalists: Well Rounded Vocalists

Vocalists in this category have developed their ranges to sing within a variety of genres and styles while keeping a strong connection between their vocal cords and air management to sing with minimal strain within a wider range, from chest voice to mixed voice to head voice. The development of each of those registers should be both consistent and balanced.

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232 thoughts on “NO MORE RANKING SYSTEM?! (Read)

  1. I understand that my opinion probably doesn’t matter at this point since the change has already occurred, but I’ve always seen the “ranking” system as a good summary of the vocalists’ vocal teqnique. As someone who doesn’t know a whole lot about vocal terms and such I found it easier with the labeling to understand their vocal ability plus how much exactly they needed to improve. I never once saw it as something that put other vocalists against each other, it simply meant that there was room for improvement. But that’s just my two cents. I still love what you do here I just find it a bit of a shame that it’s gone due to sensitivity of specific fans.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. I really appreciate this change. I have to be honest here, and say that I was one of the biased readers who put way too much importance on the previous ranking system. I never used it to argue with other people, but I actually started thinking things like “I should like this singer more since they have better vocal technique” and “I shouldn’t like this singer all that much since he has a weak vocal technique”.
      This new method of sorting singers really puts more importance into the vocal analysis itself, and encourages to learn more about it and actually read it, instead of putting the singers on a list and declaring who is better and who is worse.
      I’m sorry, actually, because of all the criticism you had to face over time. I wish you good luck, and I can say I seriously like this change. I’ll be looking forward to your future blogs!

      Liked by 1 person

  2. I’m not sure if you care for opinions at this point but I think it was best how it was. Weak/Weak to Average/Average/etc is easy for people not well versed in vocal technique and they’re probably your biggest audience. I never saw the ranking as you putting vocalists against each other. Maybe if you just got rid of the Vocalist ranking article where the vocalists are clearly compared against each other then it will lessen the fan wars? I don’t think this change will make a huge difference to stopping fan wars as there will always be fans that are going to say one singer is better than the other. But whatever choice you make I’m still going to follow the blog and I hope it grows!

    Liked by 5 people

  3. As per usual, something perfectly fine and so helpful was abused, taken out of context and used by people to put idols/fans down and boast about their faves instead of just taking the information to appreciate the idols for what they’ve achieved and their weaknesses that they need to work on to improve. Oh well, we will all miss the old system, but this new style is definitely a step forward to less fighting and fanwars by immature fuc…fans. Thanks admins for taking the time to come up with this new system

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  4. To me what’s most important is not what phase or stage a particular vocalist is at in terms of his or her vocal technique (weak/average/proficient/good/great/excellent), but whether there is progression or regression over the span of his or her singing career. As humans, we are always in a state of becoming (for better or for worse), and vocal technique is no exception. I fully respect your choice and decision to move the blog in another direction, but I would hope you would keep us updated on the vocalists’ progression or regression in terms of their technique (as and when you deem necessary). Ignore the haters and keep up the good work!

    Liked by 3 people

  5. I agree with what the others have said, it’s way more complex this kind of system and less clear than before, for people without knowledge about vocal technique it certainly is way more confusing since a lot of vocalist won’t be in just one category so things will mix, it’s way less obvious what is wrong and what is right…

    I think it would’ve been just fine to remove the specific rank tables you did but the weak/weak to average/etc classification was in fact, faster, simpler and more coherent since it ranked ALL the voice parts in just one package/category… It also kind of puts me off that I’m sure this came because of inmature fandoms, as the person above said, but at the end of the day they’ll keep on fighting and ranking their idols by themselves so this solves nothing, tbvh.

    So yeah, personally this would complicate things for me to understand;;; (specially since I’m not a native speaker orz) so I think this would be it for me lol wish you the best and thank you for your hard work during these years ><! Also, Ahmin has a beautiful voice so I'm definitely looking out for more covers! (I still can't get over Wildflower, omg the feeelssss)

    Liked by 5 people

  6. I can’t say I’m not a bit saddened by this. I have said it before, but I believe this is one of the best idea for a blog ever.
    However, I think I understand your feelings a bit. One way or another, it must have been hard on all of you as well. Comment sections were, indeed, beginning to be so full of negativity. It’s a shame that people keep on doing this for the sake of being annoying.

    Still, I’ll come by and I’ll keep reading and enjoying your posts. Fighting admin-nims!

    On the perks though, I think this new system will help me (force me) to finally grasp all the head voice, mix and chest things that keep confusing me 😛

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Ahmin, first of all thanks for your hard work.
    I’m one of surprised readers because probably the grading system is the most interesting part of your site. It is hard to find the comparison to your site out there since you put so much dedication to it. I personally think the grading is humbling, so people can truly see it’s hard to master skills; that diligent practices can’t be underestimated and you can’t take your nice vocal color for granted. It helps us to value the underrated skillful vocalist and probably some readers want to give their performance a chance after reading the good grading you give.
    It’s truly a pity.

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  8. To be honest, I’m kinda upset because you did all this work, I really don’t feel like you should have to. Things were fine, this site is incredibly respectful to the artist.

    Really, fanwars, who cares? Let fans fight. Fans will fight over anything, I’ve been in fandom for 15 years now, every single fandom has fights and drama. Look at sports teams, they had decade long “fanwars.” Nothing will ever stop fanswars, this site has /not/ fuled that many.

    What really fules fanwars? Sales.

    I mean look, we’re in our 20s. A lot of the people throwing fits are in their teens, or still mentally teens. Adults can’t pander to the children. The children need to grow up.

    I did fan wars when I was a tween and I look back with… so much embarrassment. It was all on me, not anything I railed against. I was illogical and too attached my beliefs. I outgrew it quickly.

    And to speak in favor of the rankings… The ranking system vindicated some very hard working singers who have off days due to tiredness or due to their main assets not being where they are asked to sing (like Wendy), or even just being “boring”. Or it’d give some of the less popular people attention. Or it’s show singers improvements and regressions.

    But really, if it weight on you too much, def do whatever you need to do. But IMO, in that case I wouldn’t do this new system, I feel it’s going to be confusing to navigate since vocalist fall into multiple categories and it’s just restating their strengths in a way. I’d just go by group/company, that would force people to read.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Well, essentially this is still a ranking system, it just got a lot more complicated. Personally, I liked your old system, it was a nice clean way of summarizing the abilities of each vocalist and most importantly it was easy to understand. I didn’t know anything at all about vocal technique before reading your blog (hell, i thought Park Bom was good!!) but I learned a lot from reading your analyses and comparing artists at different ranks. I’m a bit afraid I won’t be able to follow or understand this new system as well.

    Another thing and this is entirely my personal opinion, I hope I’m not out of line with this: you can’t always please everyone therefore you can’t stop fanwars. I think you have a wonderful educational blog that offers insight to vocal training and technique. You had a ranking system based on objective criteria and facts. Ailee has a better techique than Tiffany. That’s a fact and you can “prove” it with solid arguments. Some people will always be butthurt and immature but that doesn’t mean you should throw the whole system out the window because of them. You know better, you’re objective, you studied this, stick to your opinion. As for fanwars, those who start or engage in them are usually 13 year olds who won’t take time to read an analysis and as long as the public opinion is ‘sings high notes = better singer’, the high range belters label is gonna be the equivalent of omg best vocalist and used as such. And I guess you’ll get a bunch of “ok but who’s better?” kinda questions. Maybe if you could combine the labels with the old ranking system to highlight the strengths of the technically less proficient vocalists, that could be the best.

    That being said I don’t necessarily understand your decision but I can accept it and give it a shot. Keep up the good work and don’t let the haters get to you!
    (I really hope I wasn’t rude, English isn’t my first language and that sometimes causes misunderstandings)

    Liked by 3 people

    1. We are going to try this out for a while first and see how it goes! It doesn’t have to be permanent, but it may be. It’s just in BETA right now, the same facts are still being used. This is also for other reasons, like professionalism and self-preservation. I understand how you all feel, this wasn’t an easy decision but hopefully it’s for the better due to our future plans and careers as well. ^ ^

      Liked by 1 person

  10. I think the problem is that those that have more labels will seem much better to new readers than those that have only two. For instance chen is only in 2 categories, and in the old system he was rated higher than onew who is now in 4 categories. Some people might use that as onew>chen in terms of skills

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  11. I think you should change the ranking system back. I understand that you want to stop petty arguments (which is great), but this new ranking system is pretty confusing and not as clear as the previous one. Imo, compared to the last one, these categories aren’t as clear.

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  12. Olá! Eu sou de outro país e mesmo não sabendo inglês, sempre traduzo a página para ler todas essas análises maravilhosas que você e sua equipe se dedicam para produzir. Cada palavra tem um esforço, um trabalho, um tempo e um super cuidado. Eu amo esse blog, adoro passar o tempo lendo as análises dos vocalistas e admiro muito o trabalho de vocês. 💗💕
    Da mesma maneira que vocês recebem críticas, vocês também recebem muito apoio dos leitores que, assim como eu, admiram esse incrível trabalho e respeitam suas decisões para as análises tomadas, até porque vocês não falam asneiras, vocês são formados em Canto e Música 🎹🎤🎵, tem conhecimento sobre esse assunto, sabem o que estão falando e principalmente comprovam isso (o que percebo que muitas pessoas simplesmente ignoram e não tentam buscar as respostas).
    As pessoas que criticam no intuito de ofender são apenas fãs orgulhosos que querem que seus idols sejam os melhores, sem nem mesmo ler toda a análise para compreender o porquê ele foi classificado assim. É lamentável que o orgulho seja maior que a razão. O que importa é que vocês possuem fãs/leitores conscientes, que leem com cautela e precisão tudo o que vocês publicam, que reconhecem o esforço e o tempo que vocês tiram para produzirem uma análise e se dedicarem ao blog. ⏰📝🔍
    Eu fico muito triste de vocês terem tomado essa decisão 😭. Eu amei o sistema que vocês fizeram, foi algo muito legal e que resumia de uma maneira geral tudo o que vocês produziram até agora. Mesmo que eu esteja triste por vocês não fazerem mais um rank e nem opinarem sobre quem é melhor do que quem, eu super compreendo e sempre continuarei acompanhando o blog. Só que agora eu vou ficar super curiosa para saber sobre quem tem uma técnica mais desenvolvida kkkkkkk 😜.
    Obrigada por não desistirem do blog. Graças a vocês, eu aprendi muita coisa! E tenho certeza que muitas pessoas também aprenderam (e aprendem) muito sobre canto e vocal. Se proteja do frio e tenha um ótimo dia! ❄☃⛄❄☕💘

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    1. Eu agradeço muito o comentário, o apoio, o reconhecimento e o carinho. Ajuda muito a gente a sentir que a gente não está sozinho com essas nossas análises. Eu entendo como você se sente mas eu espero que entenda que na verdade tá tudo ainda ali! Só que agora tem que pensar um pouco mais. E a gente só coloca encorajamento para os artistas e cantores. Nós ainda sim acreditamos no mesmo que antes, como professor de canto, eu espero que as pessoas não se acomodem com mediocridade que é o que eu noto na nossa sociedade, infelizmente.

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      1. Eu não vou mentir, eu sabia que um dia chegaria a isso. Agora sobre mediocridade, acho que não é esse o problema. O modo como as coisas fazem sucesso tem a ver apenas com o que está em alta, e como qualquer estilo de música, sempre existe os que estão em alta ou baixa, então o cantor com maior “arsenal” não irá fazer muito sucesso se ele não canta o que está em alta. E isso não acontece apenas na música, mas em todos os meios artísticos. Agora sobre o ranking, acho que é fácil para adolescentes acharem que os cantores são deuses, pessoas inatingíveis, que tudo que eles fazem é mágico(já que elas não entendem), quando na verdade todos os cantores são apenas pessoas que fazem isso a muito tempo, e apenas através das experiencias que tiveram, cultivaram habilidades ao longo do tempo. E quando se fala de estilo, esse para um cantor é o mais importante, para qualquer tipo de arte também, eu como desenhista, sei que não posso ser tão bom em desenhar realista como eu desenho mangá, mesmo sabendo anatomia e sombreamento, são dois estilos completamente diferentes, que exigem habilidades, detalhes, expressões bem peculiares, e até mesmo na realidade, não existe alguém que seja ótimo em mangá e realista ao mesmo tempo, ou em qualquer outro estilo, por que simplesmente não é possível. Espero não ter fugido muito do assunto :p

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      2. Cantar com o mínimo o possível de habilidade para agradar os outros já que é a coisa mais popular e que faz sucesso é se limitar a mediocridade.

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      3. Eu não vejo tanto dessa forma, é que diferentes estilos requerem diferentes habilidades, Ariana canta super agudo, Tori Kelly é ótima com melismas e no estilo delas, elas vão bem em questão de sucesso, não tanto quanto Taylor por exemplo, mas o motivo é apenas o que está em alta, uma hora possa ser que alguma outra cantora com várias habilidades ganhe fama, e assim por diante. E não é recente que músicas mais simples possuam uma apelação maior de público, Beyoncé por exemplo, tem músicas bem difíceis e outras fáceis, vai do cantor conciliar seu repertório. Tem algo super importante também, que é o modo vocal, quanto mais se treina, melhor soa a voz, David Phelps ou Adam Lambert não poderiam cantar como Jungkook, e se ele quisesse cantar agudo como eles, a voz dele também mudaria muito, já que ele se especializou no estilo pop, não gospel ou rock. Acho que o Tristan até concordaria com você nesse ponto, de que ele poderia fazer muito mais com a voz dele, mas nesse estilo, apenas o tom da voz é importante, saber cantar agudo, fazer melismas não é tão importante.

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      4. Não disse se limitar a estilo. Eu quero dizer que agir como se não existisse um jeito de cantar que danifique a voz, como se não existisse um jeito mais eficaz e saudável de cantar qualquer gênero. Rock não precisa ser cantado de forma que danifique a voz, tem jeito saudável de cantar qualquer gênero sem limitar o desenvolvimento da voz.

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      5. A questão é que não se tem muito estudo nisso de danificar a voz, cantar num volume muito alto, problemas de saúde no geral(o que envolve drogas também), usar muito a voz com pouco descanso, é o que se tem de comprovado que faz mal a voz.

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      6. Sei que tem muitas coisas que fazem mal para a saúde vocal mas vanglorizar gritar e dar desculpa que é “estilo” como se não desse para cantar sem gritar? Mhmm tá.

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      7. Gritar ou não, depende do quanto você leva em consideração a didática vocal criada pelas escolas de ópera, ou até mesmo de preferência, tem pessoas que acham que SoHyang grita e Adele não, e muitos professores de canto de ópera até são contra belting por exemplo( tem sites explicando essa “polêmica” até).

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      8. “Tem pessoas que acham que a Sohyang grita e a Adele não” isso já é uma questão de falta de ouvido. But I rest my case because I’d rather not waste anybody’s time here.

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  13. Oh… my dear, I hope that it is not a wrong decision.
    I personally don’t really like these new changes. It’s way more complicated and confusing for readers because ranking is the best summary about a specific idol’s vocal skills. So you change the system because you don’t want some crazy fans use your blog in their insane fan wars? My dear, they can take the supported range or any part of your analyses to fuel their wars as well. You cannot prevent them.
    The way your rank these idols are not disrespectful to them. They deserve it, who better skill that one get higher rank.
    Anyway, I still respect your decision but I strongly hope you will change everything back.

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  14. Honestly, I feel like if your goal for this blog was to educate the kpop fans about the vocal techniques of their favourite idols, then this might make that goal harder to achieve. The majority of your followers(including myself) have no idea about vocal technique, so simple and general headings like “Weak”, “Proficient”, “Good” gave a short and nice summary of the analysis making it easier to understand. But as a person inexperienced with vocal technique, the new categories seem confusing. Since I love this blog with all my heart I can probably get accustomed to it, and eventually it may feel natural, but newcomers and many others will probably feel overwhelmed and might lose interest in following the blog any further. Anyway I understand your wish to prevent ignorant hate and to maintain professionalism by not labelling vocalists as “Weak”, “Average”, etc. so I understand and accept the change. Now for some suggestions! XD–So I think you could make the categories Well-Rounded vocalists(W); Belters(B); Head Voice Vocalists(H); Mid-Range Vocalists(M) with sub-categories Mid-Belter(MB), Mid-Head(MH), Mid-Low(ML), and just Mid(M); Low-Range Vocalists(L); and maybe include special sub-categories under each of the main five for Agile, Commercial, and Stylistic vocalists or just special tags on the analyses since they don’t seem like major criteria. Idk just feels more organized that way. Hope the change works well!

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  15. I honestly think the idea of this concept is great! ^^
    At first I was kind of worried because I didn’t want you to eliminate the rankings. I personally think it’s important to point out that every vocalist is different. For example, not every main vocalists is equally “good”. They can be weak or competent even if they’re all main vocalist. You know? 😀
    Nonetheless, I also knew that you guys received some… disrespectful comments since I also scroll through them. Everything would be a lot easier if haters understood why their favourites aren’t ranked as high as they want them to be or didn’t use those rankings to start fan wars…
    But I’m so happy that you guys found a way to keep the ranking (just in a different way) but didn’t directly compare the vocalists! 😀 I love how you point out each vocalist’s strengths within the ranking’s name (Did that sentence even make sense? I don’t know, I’m not a native speaker… XD)!
    Even if you might change the raking again, I hope that it’ll work for both you and the fans/readers.
    Thank you so much for your hard work! :))

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  16. Great decision to be honest. The change might be hard at first but we will get used to the new system. Whoever is really interested in the analysis itself wont mind this but the ones that want to use the old rank system to bragging rights sure they will.

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  17. Oh well , i think this actually will bring even more fanwar since people can argue with each other about their fave Vocalist forever since there will be no “judge” here.
    Your blog are also suppose to be the judge

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  18. No one really likes changes if they liked the old system of anything but I’m still going to stand with most of what others have been saying. The new system just seems more confusing for clueless people like me while the old one was a simple way to get a quick grasp of someone’s ability. I’ll give it a try and maybe have to reread some analyses to try to get a grasp of it but I’m fairly sure it won’t help much.
    If the primary reason for the change was the fanwars and rude comments then I believe it was a poor decision. Those will continue with or without the ranking. It is unavoidable that someone must be better or worse than someone else and there will always be arguments about it. However if other factors more heavily influenced the change then I just hope you made the best decision concerning whatever they were.

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  19. I still can’t really underatand the standard for a singer to be included in a category. What if the singer can’t make a supported head voice or consistent head voice but has an ease/relax falsetto for example E5? Will he in middle head voice or not? And how if the singers underdeveloped, will it stylistic or commercial?

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    1. Then they use falsetto, not heat voice. It’s quite simple really. It depends are they breathy, throaty and growly for style or do they sing in one way only for the sake of their group’s music without those specific stylistic features? That’s the difference between C and S.

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  20. I think this is a great step in the right direction. Going through some analyses with this in mind, I felt like I was less concerned about who was better or worse. I love that you’re putting focus on the content of the analysis. I’ll offer a few criticisms but know that what I just said is weighted MUCH more than the criticisms. I liked that the ranking invited nuanced discussion. Considering there were a number of vocalists in a category, it was fun to see why one vocalists was a bit higher or what another would need to improve. What might a vocalist’s goal be now? Going from a MB to an HB vocalist, for example? I can imagine it’s hard to put it lightly when a vocalist just isn’t very skilled–but that fact can’t be denied. There will always be a spectrum of skill, and you have the difficult job (maybe truly impossible?) of averaging their skills and slapping a rating on them. I’ve always appreciated the honesty of this site, and I hope you don’t feel you have to hold back due to others’ immaturity. I’ll miss seeing Sohyang in her lonely category at the top =p This is part of the evolution of this site, and I hope you arrive at something even better than before. If you ever want help with crafting some logical systems or editing, I’d be happy to contribute. Good luck, and thanks for all that you do here!

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  21. It’s kind of confusing personally, especially when so many vocalists fall into multiple categories… For those without a good understanding of vocal pedagogy, it comes off as ultra dense jargon, and I know you provide the info to learn it? but it’s like a hard learning curve.

    I was really excited for your eventual analysis and rating of Jihyo (and to a lesser extent Rose) because Twice gets sooo much hate over vocal technique and Jihyo would’ve been *probably* 2.5, so I felt like that (coupled with your other video which didn’t focus on Jihyo and talked about sub vocalists in general) would’ve been great to assuage the crazy hate Twice gets. I feel like it would’ve neutered a lot of Blackpink v. Twice fanwars a lot too, and I think the rating system was actually really great because you brought a lot of attention to lesser known vocalists who have great technique (Dia, Yuji, Gunwoo, Sohyang especially).

    I wish salty stans who are mad at you because BTS vocal line is bad (read: technically deficient), angry korean Lee Sunhee stans, and Twice v Blackpink fans and all of the pettier side of things weren’t a factor in your decision but alas. I hope your new categorization system plays out well for your career endeavors, and I’ll still be following from my side of the computer!

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    1. Thank you, truthfully and from the bottom of our hearts. I know this change is hard, but we will try to improve on it and make sense out of it and if it doesn’t get better, we can consider going back!

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    1. I don’t know if this is necessarily the case, because under the old vocal system, Lee Sun-Hee, who is under the WR vocalist category, was placed in category 3, I believe (I remember this because I was quite shocked when I first saw that). However, vocalists like Lee-Haeri and Younha, who were both placed under “4. proficient vocalists” to my memory, are not placed in the WR vocalist category. This is because Lee Hae-Ri, despite having one of the best mixed registers in K-pop, lacks similar development in her lower and upper registers. Younha possessing Mixed Voice with consistent resonance and a developed upper register, lacks similar development in her lower register. So, while WR vocalists may have developed a wide array tools that they can use, other vocalists may still be masters of select vocal techniques, but might lack the wide array of tools needed to be classified as a Well-Rounded vocalist.

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  22. Wow! I’m sure this change will take some getting used to, but I do think it’s a more accurate way to fully describe each vocalist. A few questions if you don’t mind:
    1) Is there a reason the cutoff for HB tenors is Bb4? I thought A4 was a well developed mix? I say this because now the MB houses people like Bohyung and Solji as well as Chen or Lee Hyun, though their mixing is significantly different in terms of skill.
    2) Not a question, but I think it might be nice to organize/group the mixing labels or head voice labels together on this page.
    3) I see the ranking page is gone (though the link is still there); are you considering adding a page to see the vocalists’ labels on one page? Like a table or something?

    I feel like the change surely requires a higher level of minimum knowledge of your system to understand, which might be detrimental, but it’s clear you guys have put a lot of time and thinking into this.

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    1. 1. The point is that this system is less strict and less judgy, instead it groups vocalists by vocal technique and development patterns as opposed to judging their skill per se.
      2. What do you mean?
      3. Oh I forgot to delete the link!! haha Sorry my bad.

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  23. I really like where this change is going. It’s like “I’m going to label the vocalists in the areas they specialize in”. I like the concept. The other part that remains untouched is the content because it goes into the detail of what makes a vocalist a mid-range belter specialist, for example. My constructive criticism here is none. This is all great to me.

    On the other hand, I understand why people are taken back after reading the comments. I agree with what was said about the category systems in the way they were able to give you a sense of what was “average” or “proficient”, how good these vocalists were. That in particular was something we could only learn from you (because that other blog on A-Pop vocalists is ambiguous to the max). My constructive criticism here is that I hope a way is found to recapture that sense that people got from the categories. But this will come later on, as you refine the descriptions of the categories.

    I also recommend differentiating the Stylistic and Commercial categories a little more in the long run. Because in my head, a lot of people fit both descriptions. And then i can’t separate them according to their categories. For commercial vocalists, I think Sunggyu, for example. With the exception of clarity of tone, he sings in a certain way for Infinite, but sings differently outside of it. For stylistic, I find it hard to place. Do you mean people who rearrange their genres to fit their style of singing? Breathy style by default? Because this also sounds like a C vocalist. I know the small details will be fleshed out during the beta stage.

    In summary, a great idea that will be refined over time, a new specialty system, emphasizing the skill-based nature of singing. As time goes on, certain categories will be differentiated or described better, and they will be able to give people a sense of where the vocalists’ stand with their different skills in the different areas (LR, Belt, HV) and how developed they are.

    After reading the categories two or three times, I wholeheartedly believe this is the best move for you, and I support it. All great ideas are refined over time because Rome…wasn’t built in a day. Just like in the beginning, the ranking system also had its share of issues. There was the number thing, then the vocalists who forced the creation of the in-between categories (AA2P) because their skills were too good, the misrated vocalists, etc. With time, it became better. That’s all you need: Time.

    P.S. I see your newfound love for the Kookie. Reminds of that time you were fawning over DK and before him Hyungshik. 🙂

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  24. You’re on to something really good, don’t forget that. When employers look at your blog, this will make it look attractive because you were able to pin specialties on the vocalists, not just a simple ranking. It can go farther beyond fanwars and self-preservation

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  25. This new change is very interesting and I’m looking forward to see where it’s headed although it’s quite confusing too. It’s a new change and we’ll all have to adjust I guess.

    My question is what exactly constitutes who could be a Well-Rounded Vocalist? I know its described on this page and on the front page but I feel like many vocalists who aren’t included as a WR Vocalist should be… I noticed all of the WR vocalists have a head voice but I’m thinking of other vocalists who could be in this category. For example, Eunkwang, Eunji, and Baekhyun, although those 3 don’t have a head voice shown in their supported range they’ve all showcased a head voice in the past and I feel as though they all have developed enough voices to be labeled as as “Well-Rounded.” There’s probably more vocalists that could fit that I’m not thinking of too. If it’s because the reason I stated that they don’t have a consistent head voice, it’s still weird because although I can’t speak for most of the WR vocalists, I can speak for Taeyeon. I know her well enough and she’s a WR vocalist but she uses falsetto quite often so it’s just kind of weird to see all these decently developed vocalists not being put in the WR category. Honestly it was confusing at first because when I looked in the WR vocalist list, I expected to see like all of the previously AA or higher vocalists there. To me, having the label WR vocalists is like the ok that you’re good enough to be a main vocal or you’re above average.

    Anyway, hopefully as time goes by and you get lots of feedback and constructive criticism, you can fine-tune this blog and make it better than it was in the past! Keep up the good work!!

    P.S. — I saw that you said you may potentially go back to the ranking system and if you were to do that, I would suggest maybe taking off the labels of “Weak”, “Average”, “Above Average”, and so on. You could use numbers like 1, 1.5, 2 instead to indicate where the vocalists are, that way we can get a feel for where they stand without having the negative connotation as a vocalist being labeled weak. For fans who want to bash, saying “That vocalist is weak!” compared to saying “That vocalist is a level 1 vocalist” sound completely different.

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    1. Oh yeah!! Also forgot to add why aren’t vocalists like Taeyeon, Wendy, etc. (probably more I can’t think of again lol) considered as Melismatic/Agile vocalists? Last I recall their agility is pretty good. I understand their agility isn’t as good as the vocalists actually in the MA vocalist category however so maybe if they aren’t good enough to be labeled MA, you could make another category that denotes they have decent agility?

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    2. As for Taeyeon, this is probably why she’s considered a well-rounded vocalist. “Taeyeon, when not using falsetto, can carry a supported head voice up to F5/F#5 though not resonant. Above F#5 her head voice and falsetto become very tense and shrill.” Though I understand your position, the criteria for a well-rounded vocalist states that the vocalist must have developed healthy singing habits from chest voice to mixed voice to head voice. I don’t think makes vocalists who are not under this category less of a vocalist (Eunji, Lee Haeri, and Younha coming to my mind who were considered at least proficient singers under the old system, but are not considered well-rounded vocalists); it just shows that they still have areas of the voice that they could develop if they desire to!

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      1. Wait, I made it sound like Taeyeon is under the WR category because of her head voice. I meant to say that Taeyeon, upon showing consistent support up to C#5, possesses a supported head voice up to F5/F#5, that would make her voice developed in the lower register, mixed register, and upper register.

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      2. True, I get that it’s because Taeyeon is developed enough in all 3 registers to be able to be labeled WR, but another part of being a WR vocalist is, and I’ll quote, “developed their ranges to sing within a variety of genres and styles while keeping a strong connection between their vocal cords and air management to sing with minimal strain”… (that’s actually the majority of the description too)

        I feel like vocalists such as Eunji, Eunkwang, and Baekhyun (especially because Eunji and Eunkwang were Proficient in the old ranking and Baekhyun was AA-P) should be able to be WR vocalists because I feel that the tiny discrepancy that they don’t have a consistent head voice shouldn’t disqualify them from being WR vocalists. All 3 of them are pretty well developed everywhere else and like I said they’ve all shown they’re capable of producing head voice. Also, I would get cases where a vocalist hasn’t showcased a head voice at all, but all these 3 have and I’m pretty sure many others have as well that fit all the other criteria.

        Isn’t it pretty weird that Onew and Yoseob were AA-P vocalists are considered WR while Eunkwang was P (half a step higher) and is not? Being a WR vocalist seems to denote that the vocalist is of certain vocal skill and are held at a higher standard, and I think it’s arguable to say that the vocalists I’m stating fit that description.

        Anyway, I hope to see how the authors respond to this because such a tiny discrepancy of not having a consistent head voice (while having an inconsistent one) despite being good everywhere else doesn’t seem like a big enough disqualifier to be a WR vocalist to me.

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      3. The head voice has to be part of their consistent supported range. That’s the only reason they aren’t in this category. I had considered all 3 of them initially for that category personally actually but due to the lack of head voice consistency, I couldn’t, because although they are quite skilled as vocalists, WR Vocalists are vocalists who are balanced in development and those 3 aren’t balanced. They’re focused on 2 major areas a lot more than the third one, so they aren’t balanced.

        “Isn’t it pretty weird that Onew and Yoseob were AA-P vocalists are considered WR while Eunkwang was P (half a step higher) and is not?” THIS is the problem. You think that WR Vocalist means more skilled vocalist and that’s not what it means. It simply acknowledges a balance in vocal development, nothing more, nothing less. You’re thinking in the old system and thus you think “The more skilled the vocalist, the more well rounded they should be, right?” No, because neither Ryeowook nor Sandeul are considered WR Vocalists because although in the old system they were rated high, in the new system that doesn’t rank them but instead acknowledges their strengths, they simply don’t match that specific label. That’s all. Don’t try to equate these new labels to the old ratings. The whole point of the new labels is that they’re different and unique on their own and they stand alone without being associated with the old system. That’s it. Dana and Lee Sunhee are considered WR vocalists, while vocalists like Sandeul, Ryeowook and Lee Haeri are not. The new system works by itself. So I know it’s hard to get used to the new one, but we have to let go of our old way of thinking. This is just a new way of looking at vocal technique! ^ ^

        Also I agree with you! Perhaps the words should be changed all around as well! If we do ever go back that is.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. I feel like having a consistent head voice is an impressive feat and an asset, and since the descriptions do also include the phrase “from chest voice to mixed voice to head voice” having development in all three registers makes them a Well-Rounded vocalist. I think we need to understand that this new category isn’t just the compilation of vocalists that were proficient and above. There are many proficient vocalists who didn’t make the cut, such as Lee Hae-Ri and Younha, because they lack development in certain registers. While Lee Sun Hee, an Above Average vocalist, did because she has development in all three registers to an extent. I guess the term “Well-Rounded” gives it a connotation that these are the best vocalists, but being well-rounded doesn’t necessarily mean they are the best, but rather equipped with a wide array of techniques. This isn’t to discredit vocalists that aren’t in the WR category. Lee Hae-Ri, Younha, Eunji, Baekhyun are all great vocalists in their respective strengths. But, that’s my two cents. I wonder if I interpreted the author correctly.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Hmmm I guess it makes sense, it’s true that I was kind of equating being a WR vocalist to being the best because the name makes it seem like they’re the best vocalists on the site. I guess it comes down to semantics and what being a “Well-Rounded” vocalist truly means… It sucks that them not having a consistent head voice eliminates them from being WR but I get where you’re coming from. Thanks for the feedback!

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      6. I can’t reply to Ahmin’s post so I’ll reply here… Just out of pure curiosity, why is Sohyang under WR vocalist? Isn’t her chest voice very far from her mix and head voice?
        I hope I don’t sound too judgemental or rude, I’m just curious..

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      7. The answer in the criteria. She has a chest voice that’s got support down to G#3, that’s a mid-low range vocalist which balances out her other two very well developed registers and makes her a well rounded vocalist.

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  26. This was a good decision for your career tbh. If I were you, I would just remove the analyses that feature in Top Posts & Pages every single day and put a huge screenshot compilation of fanwars that mention your analyses. Or maybe I am too extreme lol
    Moving onto more realistic advices, I really don’t get this label system. Putting up big fancy names like Mid-Range Head Voice Vocalists and abbreviating them like MH Vocalists seems like a poor way to replace the ranking system. So it was “your fave is weak but my fave is proficient” but now it is “your fave is commercial but my fave is high belter”. IMO these labels should help people find similar vocalists, but I really don’t think one will say “well I like Seulgi, she is a mid range vocalist so I should check the 44-person mid range vocalists tag”. So my suggestion is, put non-fancy tags like “good agility”, “high head voice”, “half-air half-sound”, “expressive musicianship lol” etc that clearly shows the qualities of one’s voice. Not everyone needs a tag either.

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    1. Wow yes okay maybe a tiny bit too extreme. We could put up a wanted sign for crazy fanwar starters if you want? LOL jk (I know who I’d put. lol)

      Well see the thing is saying your fave is commercial and mine is a high belter is hardly an insult. There is nothing wrong with being one or the other. It depends on the vocalist’s themselves on what they wanna do, the kind of music they want to sing and the intention behind their music. There are more effective ways to sing different genres surely, but it all depends on the vocalist’s own perspective and motivation. We will think of your suggestion though!

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      1. To us, Weak wasn’t an insult either. Someone will use Commercial to insult a vocalist the same way. Whatever, people will fight regardless of what you do lol
        I stand by my suggestion though. For example, Melismatic/Agile Vocalists is really useful, if someone likes D.O. they can navigate through that tag and discover Yerin or Naul. Looking at mid-whatever vocalists, they don’t seem as useful, they’re just a paraphrase of the old rankings.
        It’s pretty awesome of you put lots of effort into this site after all this time. Back then you would just give a rank based on a single performance in the comment section lol. Doing all these radical changes for a simple analysis blog must be hard for you.

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  27. Not gonna lie, it really breaks my heart knowing that the old system is gone.

    Ever since I have discovered this page, I’m really drawn to it since vocalists that I think are “good” are not actually as skilled in terms of vocal techniques, and also knowing that there are underrated idols who are actually good vocalists. I know I may sound idiotic, but the old ranking system is the what makes this page so educational and interesting, as this makes me know which idols are actually worth crediting for their vocal technique, and which idols are not as proficient as they seem to be. The new ranking is just so vague and ambiguous, and I can’t really figure out whether an idol is having a good vocal technique or not.

    It just kinda upset me when this change of ranking happened. I visit this site on a daily basis, scrunitnising each analysis to know the strengths and weakness of each idol from their vocal techniques. As I am looking into each analysis, I predict which position of each idol will be in the ranking of vocalist page. I just can’t wait until the day where the 2015 version of the ranking is released to see whether my guesses are correct, and it just excites me every time when I think about it. But now knowing that this day will never come, all my fantasies are shattered and it just upsets me that idols especially my fav singer (Rose from bp) will never be ranked accordingly.

    I fully understand that the premise of this page is to educate the general public about vocal technique, but that doesn’t mean comparison can’t be made, and despite fueling fan wars this actually promotes healthy competition to occur and encourage idols to improve on their vocal technique.

    I know I’m selfish but I really miss the old ranking system and I really hope it will come back, but I know it probably won’t.

    #Bringbacktheoldranking 😦

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    1. I really am touched and I appreciate the love and support you gave us, as well as the encouraging acknowledgment of our old system. But I believe instead of these analyses, our presence in the actual K-pop industry would encourage idols to improve their technique a lot more than these analyses. So although I know what we did here had good intentions and was good, I believe in the end moving forward this might be the best option for now. We don’t know for sure what’s gonna happen but I hope you’ll support us and especially me with my goals and that you believe in what we can do together. I promise I won’t let anybody down.

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      1. No doubt that I will continue to support this page unconditionally, as I know every posts and analysis requires a lot of dedication from the contributors. That’s what makes this blog so captivating and refreshing, and I am truly thankful for you and other contributors to educate idiots like me about vocal techniques which we have absolutely zero knowledge prior reading the analyses.

        But I truly believe the old ranking doesn’t clash with your intentions, but again this is my opinion. I know this new ranking is more desirable for you write your analysis in, and I have no right to interfere, but to respect your decision.

        I guess it’s time for me to grow up and know that sometimes the world doesn’t revolve around me. I scrolled through the comments and saw you stated that you have your own personal reasons to make this change as well, and I will root for you and hope that you can achieve your goals (I’m sure you will)!

        Nevertheless, this amendment doesn’t change the fact that this blog is one of my favourite blogs. You didn’t let anyone of us down, but instead, we’ll support you like how we did from the start 🙂

        Finally, I hope more people are able to recognise this website and have an influence on Kpop industry as you wished!!

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  28. I personally really liked the old system of ranks since it gave me a rough idea of what made a singer stand out against others, but hey let’s give this new system a try and see how it goes 🙂

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  29. I mean I can totally understand where this is coming from. Even though there’s no ranking anymore I can still pretty much rank them since I’ve memorized the criteria and I’ve studied “enough” to at least distinguish some complex factors here but I’m seriously… like I don’t think this is a good step. You could’ve removed the labels of weak/average etc. and the vocalist ranking like the actual specific ladder rank but not this. I’m sorry you had to deal with that person. He clearly did this just for the sake of views and drama (He’s not even an actual fan) and I didn’t really want that to affect this. I understand but the old ranking is better since it’s objective and most people seemed to respect it until this thing happened. I still want the old rankings back maybe just remove the labels and the ladder and it’ll be good. This has been running for a while now and I don’t think that some attention seeker should ruin/affect this. I wish you just ignored him just like how other vocal coaches and forums did since he’s actually full of bs. I still respect your opinion but the older one is much better.

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    1. Oh btw I like the new changes it became more friendly. It’s kinda true that there’s negative connotation with some statements here even though it’s constructed well. So I was kinda happy to see those changes. I think the blog improved drastically in it’s friendly atmosphere. So kudos~ You did well ahmin but I still that the ranks or at least numbers are still necessary. Even in the section of general pop or classical music. There’s still rankings to see what feat they did and what others could do and how great they are. People wouldn’t see it as something negative if they actually take the time to read the blog.

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      1. But there’s people who follow this blog blindly as well, and not only here, but other vocal pages and youtube channels started to copy kpopanalysis way of thinking and are making people all over the fandoms(not only kpop) to take this blog views too seriously, to the point of attacking anyone to think different.

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    2. Actually we’ve had issues with this for years, people disagreeing, and theoretically the ranking was subjective to our understanding of what makes a vocalist in its essence. But comparing vocalists who might not wanna be anything but what they are isn’t the best option, so labeling them for what they are as opposed to in relation to one another feels more productive for vocal students to us. This wasn’t done because of a specific person, it was long time coming and I was planning to do it this year anyway due to personal reasons too. So don’t worry, he’s not special enough to have caused this. lol No shade. He just was an incentive to do it sooner than later.

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      1. lmao I’m glad that this decision is not rushed. Also I remember you saying he’s civil so I did some magic and yeah he’s not, he’s very far from being civil. I’m not geonna tell more since I’m trying to behave. I’m expecting some good analysis in the future. LYH please :ahmahgah:. //runs Let’s have this blog get even better.

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      2. Oh no I know. His channel has always been full of him being rude to other vocal coaches on YouTube. Which is why I said no to a live stream with him. I do not wish to be associated with the brand of somebody like that, especially since I’m more of a quality over quantity kind of person.

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      3. He doesn’t have both. Oops did I went over the line? His attempt to be an “it” controversy is petty and I’m personally annoyed by some of his claim. I went and talked to him carefully and well mannered but I did some magic and spelled vocal cords to vocal chords to see what kind of color he has and it’s ugly. I pressed him later on so he can’t speak now. Anyway I’m familiar too with the mess he did on some platforms and his mocking of other vocal coaches but what really irritates or amazes me is that he lacks so much general knowledge or basics about this and is able to do this. Shameless. In the future I hope you won’t cross paths with him and I personally //wishes

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      4. What upsets me is that people want validation for their opinion so they listen to him blindly… but anyway let’s move on. Happy thoughts! No need to talk about this anymore. ^ ^

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  30. Tbh, my knee-jerk reaction to changing the ranking system was resistance, but I knew it was because of my upbringing and the world we live in where everything has to be a race. Haha.

    I had to chastise myself for even resisting because I used to teach, and I already have had discussions with colleagues on why eliminating numerical grades is more egalitarian and helpful for students. I still have to constantly remind myself about the principles I want to stick by. (All these ran in my head before voting on your Twitter poll in support of the change, haha.)

    Anywaaaayyyy, my point is, you guys are awesome for doing this ^_^ I love how you’re showing that words, labels, and the way we frame things are important. And though I view the previous ranking system as something that did not intend to insult or degrade, this initiative definitely lets us know how much you guys care about your work–how much thought and effort you are willing to exert to abide by your principles. ^_^

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  31. Not wanna to spread hate, even though i know this will. But why there’s something in my head saying the fanwars started bc BTS’s vocalist were raking among weak vocalists? Am i the only one who thinks this happened ?

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    1. No, that’s not true. Ever since the beginning of this blog there have been complaints regarding the analyses. By Hyorin, JYJ, Infinite, Lee Sunhee, Lena Park, etc fans. Actually at first BTS fans gave me no issues at all. Every fandom has its bad apples.

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  32. I can understand why are you changing the ranking system, I personally think it was better that way it was in terms of “understanging” (?). I mean it was more understandable and comfortable for non-vocalists and people who don’t know much about music, but it does not necesserly mean it’s bad thing to change it..As vocalist myself I don’t think it was bad or controversal and I think it was good summary to all the vocalists, but I know you probably saw much more hate on the system than I did..I’ve been following you guys for a long time and I respect your oppinion, you are doing great job and I really appreciate this, keep it up! 😊

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    1. The previous one definitely had its positives it was to the point and fairly simple comparatively. However, this new system is more tailored towards the individual and has more expression to it and a bit more depth in a way. It also gets rid of the idea of this being like a competition like 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and last I’ve never really liked that because there’s always that gray area of who is better and what not. The analyses are going to stay the same our critiques and observations are definitely going to be there, and I almost feel with this new style of ranking or rating people are going to be more encouraged to read the analyses and really see what everything is about. One of the biggest issues that we had was that people would read the rating and skip the analysis or go straight to the chart and skip the analysis and just hate on us without having done any homework. I’m glad that you are understanding as to why we are switching and supporting us, so thank you you’re great~

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      1. You are professionals and your work was thoroughly researched. Who cares if people without a clue in music criticized or hated you? It’s not like their annoyingly subjective opinions matter when it comes to these analyses.

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      2. Well, I wouldn’t consider myself a professional and neither should you . We want our content to be easily accessible, and our main point, cause, is to educate and inform people and the old system was a problem. I understand you are coming from a good place, but it’s really easy for your guys to say “who cares” because it’s not really affecting you. It’s get really old and it can be hurtful honestly. Now, I don’t get nearly as much flack as Matheus does because nobody knows what I look like, my name, my voice etc. etc., but for him they know all that and it’s so easy for people to personally attack him and that’s not fair to him because he’s not doing anything wrong. Our analyses are going to stay the same nothing is going to change within them. And to be honest ratings aren’t needed anyways because they don’t really strengthen the analysis they’re just there for comprehensive reasons. I hope you understand where I am coming from, thank you for your support.

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  33. Ok that´s a big change to the whole system and it´s gonna be hard getting used to it. But in general I think it´s better than the other ranking system because it´s not like :”yeah *idol* is weak so they´re biased , this page sucks”. Now it´s actually kind of forcing them to read the whole analysis to understand why he´s ranked stylistic , HV mid or something like that. I think it´s gonna prevent a lot of fanwars or unnecessary critism and maybe some day , when the whole k-pop fandom is a lot more chill and calm ,you can bring the old ranking back. Also I want to excuse myself for my rather bad english , it´s probaby really hard to read xD
    And thank you (Admins) for being so considerate about all the kpop fans and for your hard work.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. idk if that video is teaching the truth but if were going to follow that, then everyone in the label of melismatic singers/vocalist in this blog are in the higher rank like #5. exceptional agility or #6. unmatched agility since sohyang is in #4 but you didnt put her in the melismatic group.

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  35. I totally understand and would like to express my support to your new system, as I’m an art student and I find it hard to simply rank artists’ traditional skills or creativity, even if many of them had undergone classical training and know how to paint realistically etc., most would develop such different styles and have their own chosen areas of focus (don’t know if that’s comparable to singing haha).

    Though I guess it’s really gonna take a while to refine your new system, hope it works out one way or another 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  36. I have a suggestion. Since some people are seeing Well-Rounded vocalists as a better or best category, what if changing the name to “All Around Vocalists” helps? It might put the focus more on the multi-specialty nature of the category. Once again, let’s move forward with this new system and give it a good go.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. Woppss.. Such a drastic change. As a person who struggle with English & have zero knowledge on vocal pedagogy, I found ranking system and its criteria help to understand better. Whenever I read a singer’s analysis, I would always read other singers’ analysis who are above and below. By compare and contrast, I see differences & similarities to have clearer understanding of certain adjective to a certain terminology in overall analysis as it originally appear to be some sort of Greek to me. The categorizing system (e.g. Excellence, Great, Good, etc.) also helps me to understand better by listing out traits and abilities the singers need to possess to fall under certain category like when I see “Great” singers I know they have at least 2 developed registers & “Excellent” singer has all 3 developed registers and understand what is really mean by “developed register”. Of course, I still support your decision as it does not oppose the goal of mine and of this blog despite I may not familiar with the new system. No worry about it, it’s never a big deal and it doesn’t stop me from studying vocal pedagogy in depth and I’m sure I will get used to it.

    Suggestion: Add in a place (Like the concept of “Hall of Fame”?) for notable singers who possess outstanding vocal technique? (Singers who are originally from Good to Excellent category?) Purposely to honor(?) or show to the people of good role models(?) or help people to understand the true vocal technique(?) Because I’ve learned a lot from those singers so I guess it may help in some kind of way?
    Still a suggestion anyway. Just don’t stop what you’re doing.

    Like

    1. Hi there! Yes I understand and our new system does become slightly more demanding, but that’s kind of what we want. We got tired of people not reading the analyses and instead jumping only to the rating so now people have to do a bit more work and actually read which is more of what we wanted in the first place!

      I appreciate your suggestion and I will think about it, but I’m just worried about honoring like notable vocalists that are soloists like Naul, Lena Park, Ann One, Sohyang, Park Hyoshin, Jung Dongha, etc. and not honoring others that would have not been rated as high but are still legendary status in Korea…I won’t say who, but it might be a dangerous thing to do as Koreans might find it offensive.

      Like

      1. I was simply impressed by your rationality like the way you can always see things from different perceptive. I really appreciate your diligent effort to keep this blog running & the patience to read every comments and deal with all kind of things. This blog teach me well. You teach me well. You’re doing great. YOU FREAKING MA RESPECT! *salute*

        Liked by 1 person

  38. Society said “Stop labelling people!” Yet you do it to so many ppl with so many standards… hahaha kidding, keep up the good work!

    P.S. : I prefer the previous ranking system, I like to see Sohyang in the top of the list, sorry 😦
    Screw with what those immature fans said and fanwars~

    Liked by 1 person

  39. I really loved how the previous system and way of evaluating vocal technique taught me about vocal pedagogy, when I had very little idea of it previously. So I hope you’ll maybe reconsider using the previous ranking again. I think it’s inevitable that people will fight over rankings and use them that way but that will never change and a different ranking system won’t stop them from doing it. In fact your ranking even stopped a few fanwars, because it was obvious that Singer A just had better technique than Singer B. People are still allowed to have their preferences of course, but I think it really helped. Don’t let immature fans and bullies make you change something that was the result of your own hard work and that lots of fans really appreciated! I can tell you I’ve never been mad at my faves’ rankings or the fact that they’re weaker than other vocalists but it helped me understand their voices better. So just leaving this here again, I really love your site and the previous system was absolutely fine. I’ll always support you though, of course.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you very much, for both of your comments and for taking the time to re-write your feelings. I think our decision is deeper than you’d think and we want to show people that we’re interested in teaching vocal technique more so than we’re interested in ranking vocalists. The content of our analyses is what’s important to us, not telling anyone that their “faves are weak.” So I hope this can make our true intentions more obvious.

      Liked by 1 person

  40. I wrote a super long comment about how much I appreciate the old ranking system and all your hard work teaching me about vocal pedagogy and how you shouldn’t let the bullies and fanwars stop you cause fans will always find ways to fight, nobody can stop that, but the system at it 😦
    so just to sum up, I loved the old system, I never minded that my faves were weak singers, you always stressed that preferences are valid and found something to praise for everyone and I hope you’ll reconsider changing. I’ll always support you and this website, I think what you’re doing is great! You got me interested in vocal technique! 🙂

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  41. i was pretty surprised when I saw you change the ranking system, but after a few days I’m actually quite used to it. Keep up the good work admins! Just do what you see is best~ I’m gonna stay cause I like reading the analysis itself, not just the ranking. 😀

    Liked by 1 person

  42. I’m a bit sad with the change, but I respect the reasons why you did. I’d just like to say as someone who was learning about vocal technique from this blog, the old system was not only simple and easy to follow, but I enjoyed comparing vocalists within the same ranking to understand why one edged the other out and comparing their strengths and weaknesses, reasoning why in terms of development and consistency. It’s not quite as simple now, but that won’t stop me from reading the analyses and learning about all the wonderful singers/vocalists on the site!
    I saw a comment from someone about an FAQ for the site. I think it’s a great idea, and I think including something about how evaluating someone’s technique takes nothing away from their talent, artistry, etc. I know that’s not going to bring back the rankings, but it does remind me how when certain legends/biases aren’t as good as some think (sigh, cough), you could at least link them to that explanation.

    Liked by 2 people

  43. I was going through the MH Vocalists section and I saw that Gunwoo and Younha are listed in that label even though they don’t support they head voices consistently. Is it because they have some kind of consistency in connection, or how they use their head voices? What makes them able to be labeled as such?
    Besides that, why is Lee Hi listed as a Mid-Range Vocalist instead of Mid-Range Belter? Her supported range seems to match the criteria.

    Thank you in advance!

    Like

    1. She doesn’t produce resonance consistently enough and Younha’s supported range doesn’t include her head voice cause it’s lower than her highest mixed voice note. Gunwoo has become more consistent, I just wasn’t sure how much so I didn’t add it in his supported range yet.

      Like

  44. Wow that is quite a big change, but I understand and respect your decision.
    I do agree that the new system is confusing if you’re not already familiar with the techincal terms though. I’m also sad to see the old ranking system because it helped me a lot in the beginning. It made learning about vocal technique a lot easier : I could listen to singers in different rankings and pinpoint clearly what someone needed to improve to the “higher rank”. And it was also a great way to give less known singers more recognition for their skills (I will always be thankful to this blog for helping me discover Sohyang).
    I saw someone suggest putting making fewer, more general, categories and then subdivising each into sub-categories (for example Belters -> High range belters and Mid-range belters) and I do think this would make it look cleaner and less “scary”, because you kind of go on the side column and you find all these different categories staring you in the face and you’re like “where do I begin” ? The long list was fine for the ranking because it was very clear-cut and logical (and numbered) but it’s a bit confusing with this system.
    Anyways, you guys are doing an amazing job with this blog and I really apreciate the effort you put into it. Keep up the good work and good luck for your future ventures !

    (And now I’m off looking through all categories to see where the vocalists ended up lol)

    Liked by 2 people

  45. I know why you made this necessary changes. Not saying which fans, but I know. I really love your analysis. Your unwavering objectivity and deep analysis make your blog stand out. You should not doing this just because some fans felt butthurt. I love your analysis (I write it several times).

    Liked by 1 person

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