Hi everybody! This is just a post to show you my newest video with a cover to thank all my great 10k subscribers on Youtube!! ❤ Thank you all so much!
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K-pop Vocalists' Vocal Analyses 
When is the concert?
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LOL the facial expression is too distracting!!!!!
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:”) nice
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Hi, I’ve watched a number of your videos and I think you are doing a valuable service. So, Thank You! I just watched Weekly Idol 26072017 https://youtu.be/Y3sHWGoe-L4?t=27m3s and I was wondering if you might care to comment in one of your posts or videos about the competition between group members as to who can “sing” the highest notes. It’s hardly scientific but I had concerns about whether or not this could actually damage their voices. It’s very funny but it made me nervous. Thanks again for your efforts!
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Oh no one time of doing this wouldn’t hurt your voice! Don’t worry too much, it’s all in good fun!
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Can we consider the D7 is part of yuju’s vocal range? 38:24
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I simply wouldn’t consider that part of anyone’s range because that’s not singing. It is the whistle register though.
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What is the difference between sung and spoken and exclaimed notes? I have no expertise on vocals so I won’t question your judgment on what notes can or cannot be included in a vocalist’s range, but I’m curious about how you discern whether notes are sung or spoken/exclaimed.
Isolate Yuju’s whistle notes from the Cleopatra game on Weekly Idol and compare them to Wendy’s whistle notes from Red Velvet’s high note battle. What are the differences in quality or the way they were physiologically produced between Yuju’s whistle notes and Wendy’s that result in the former not being considered sung while the latter are?
I suspect that part of the reason why you don’t consider Yuju’s notes sung is the context of the Cleopatra game, where they are speaking/chanting/rapping a line instead of hitting a single note like in a high note battle (many notes from high note battles that have been included in vocalists’ ranges on the blog do not seem sung to me either).
Please take a look at 33:32 and 37:57 of the video linked by Ron Van Wegen (I would make time stamps for you if I knew how); Yuju does what I, as a layperson judging by my common sense, would describe as “half-singing”. It’s not quite singing, but it’s melodic and there’s an attempt to hit specific pitches — I wouldn’t call that speaking/chanting at least, and she definitely approached her lines differently than Mamamoo.
If you would agree she was not speaking/chanting on those two occasions, and at least “half-singing”, what are the differences between how she was approaching her lines on those two occasions and when she was using her whistle register? If she were using a similar approach in her whistle register, would you consider those whistle notes sung?
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Well spoken means the sound isn’t exactly sustained. I wouldn’t count spoken range as part of one’s range not because it isn’t potentially part of their range, but simply because it is a vocal range for their singing range, not for any sound they could humanly make. So if they’re speaking, it’s not singing and so it would just be odd and kind of unprofessional to count it as part of your range for a vocal analysis for an example. As for exclamation, I think of a non-sustained scream. If it’s kind of a slide in head voice, I’d say that’s more like singing.
In a high note battle, they try to keep a note sung by sustaining it and following a musical scale. That makes it more on the singing side, even if it is strained. I mean in the high note battle with Apink, when Eunji is trying to outsing Bomi but Bomi literally screams C#7’s, she couldn’t go higher than her but I wouldn’t call those C#7’s part of her singing range. So vocal range generally means: “Could they use that musically?” Even if it’s strained, even if it’s a slide, even if it’s really not supported, could it be used as part of a song? I don’t think Bomi could actually sing her C#7’s, but I think Wendy could potentially sing her Eb7 if she were to actually try it in a song. It would be very tight and strained, but it could be more musical.
33:32 37:57 I wouldn’t even call that half-singing, I’d call this singing. She had a legato going on, she did push her larynx down at the end of the humorous effect, but it was all an attempt at being musical. 37:18 That’s just squeaking and screaming, she’s hitting the notes in the seventh octave, but could she sing these? In a song? I don’t think so. 38:24 I wouldn’t call that melodic, I wouldn’t say there’s a connection of notes, there’s no legato. It’s just squeaking and screaming as high as she could. She’d have to do this in a more musical manner to us to consider it part of her range.
I mean look at it from our point of view. Let’s say we consider this part of her range, do you think fans reading this could take us seriously when writing a vocal analysis and using a clip like this to show “Yuju’s whistle register” and Yuju’s “highest notes”? I really don’t think so, I think it would make us look more amateur-ish because we would be acting like fans, trying to find anything and everything as a potential part of someone’s range. I mean some male idols like Ken can venture into their whistle registers, which is mentioned in his analysis, but we don’t count it as part of his vocal range cause it is not musical nor sung. You understand where we’re coming from with this? I understand how you feel and I agree potentially these could be part of their vocal ranges, but if it’s not done musically, with legato and actual pitch behind it, I wouldn’t call it singing.
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Hi Ahmin! I don’t want to like add more “fuel to the fire” even though I don’t think this is an argument, but I have a question for more like personal clarity I suppose, cuz I’m a bit confused!
You’ve been saying things like a spoken range isn’t included in a vocal range because the vocal range isn’t just “any sound they could humanly make,” vocal range means “could they use that musically?”, Yuju was just squeaking and screaming in the seventh octave… non melodic”, etc. etc., as reasons to not include something within one’s vocal range, which I definitely agree with!
Then, I see for V’s analysis his D6 is included in his vocal range, but watching his video it’s like uber screamed, sounds torn-apart, and he can’t even finish the annyeong cleopatra song in this voice. This just sounds like a note he is humanly capable of producing, but I sincerely doubt he could use it musically nor melodically. Even his C6, I mean it didn’t sound as bad as his D6, but like it just seems like an encounter of cognitive dissonance because what you said recently doesn’t seem to support that instance, anyway. I can see you mentioning it in his analysis section itself, much like how you mentioned Ken’s whistle register, but I guess I don’t get why it’s included in his range specifically. When you further consider he doesn’t even support D4, including D6 in his range and saying that vocal range is kinda like a tool of measuring potential, idk it seems like a stretch to my amateur eyes (and ears). Sohyang is the only vocalist to support past D6 with a head voice, and that’s Sohyang, so I guess you can see where I’m coming from?
Genuinely not trying to be combative or accusatory or anything negative like that, I want to better understand your thought process because you have such a wealth of information on these topics!
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Like I said V’s C6 isn’t much different from Shannon’s G6. Hers is just more flexible cause she has overall better technique, but it’s a really pushed strained head voice. The D6 is a slight extension of that, at least to me. Well I’m not saying D6 is the potential note he could support at the highest but it means he might if he trained really hard. It’s s sustained sound so it kind of fell under that to me. Well this specific topic is controversial and it’s a bit more subjective. To me the D6 was a strained head voice, sustained and sung but really tense.
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Wasn’t the main problem with Ken’s whistle “note” that it was inhaled instead of exhaled? Were Yuju’s whistle “notes” also inhaled?
I’m not arguing about what “notes” should or should not be included in a vocalist’s range — I fully abide by your judgment, and am just enquiring about your criteria because I don’t see much difference between these “notes” that you say are screamed/squeaked and some notes that have been included in vocalists’ ranges on the blog.
From an amateur viewpoint, I would consider notes included as part of melodic lines (e.g. Shannon’s G6 in her excerpt of “Emotions”) and notes sung up a scale (e.g. Yuju’s head voice notes from her high note battle with the choir boy: they were going up one note each turn, and she conceded defeat probably because she tried to hit an A6 but fell flat) as definitely sung even if they sound terribly strained.
“Intention to hit a specific pitch” is an important criteria for me when judging whether notes are sung or not. Whether they are sustained or not is irrelevant –phrased/staccato notes are sung despite their brevity, and screams/squeals can be sustained.
Thus, the problem I have with some notes from high note battles that you’ve included in vocalists’ ranges is that I saw no “intention to hit specific pitches”. High note battles that were conducted very informally on variety shows like Weekly Idol or fan meetings, where vocalist’s just try to go higher than the preceding attempt or to go as high as they possibly can, do not seem like appropriate occasions to cite in their vocal analyses either — when I first encountered this blog, I was surprised to see such notes being cited as a vocalist’s highest notes; the setting and manner in which they were “sung” made it hard for me to see them as such.
Of course, from these high note battles, we may see that the vocalist has the potential to use such notes in melodic lines, or control them to hit specific pitches; but until they have showcased such an ability, we are just making conjectures. For example, if Wendy’s whistle notes had been produced by Dia, who has used whistle notes in her songs, it might be reasonable to assume that those notes could be used to construct melodies or to hit specific pitches should she choose to, and hence consider them part of her vocal range; but we’ve never seen Wendy — correct me if I’m wrong — use her whistle register as part of a melody or demonstrate that she can control the pitch of her whistle notes, and I’ve heard you say that Wendy’s whistle register would need more development in order to be musically useful.
When looking up the definition of vocal range on the Internet, I found an emphasis on “musically useful” notes. Do you consider notes from high note battles conducted informally (as described above) as “musically useful” or only as potentially so? If they are only potentially “musically useful”, is it appropriate to include them in vocal ranges?
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my lengthy enquiries. I’m really appreciative of the efforts you make to respond to comments here and elsewhere.
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Oh you’re right, my bad. Ken’s case was cause it was inhaled. I agree with you about Shannon’s G6 and Yuju’s G#6. I agree that a phrased staccato is fine but there’s a difference between staccato as in when you sing and lack of flow because you’re basically speaking/screaming. What’s an example of a note that’s done in a high note battle that you feel wasn’t with the intention to hit a note? I’m assuming Wendy is one? I see what you mean but when they go up in major scale trying to hit a note higher than the other, I don’t see how that’s not a musical enough setting for it to be considered part of their range. They could add it to a song, probably wouldn’t be a good idea, but it’s still singing. The informality of it shouldn’t be the issue, I assume.
Again vocal range has absolutely nothing to do with skill. It’s just the lowest to highest note you can sing, regardless of its execution. Speaking range can give us a hint but until it’s sung, we can’t officially count it. And again as long as it’s sung, it can be very strained but it’s still singing. Yes and I stand by that, I find that Wendy might not be able to use her whistle well nor control, but she can access it with her singing voice so it’s part of her vocal range. I’m pretty sure up to A6, or even B6, she might be able to sing a musical scale in her whistle. I just haven’t seen that.
The very essence of vocal range is potential, not skill. Which is why we don’t care for vocal range when speaking of singing ability, we care for supported range which goes beyond potentially useful and actually has to do with doing it well. Vocal range is the potential range that you could sing in well if you practiced your singing better. So I don’t see why it wouldn’t be appropriate, it’s just what the highest note they can sing. For an example, Taeyeon’s F6 isn’t counted in her range cause it was never sung, it was squeaked. On the other hand, there’s no major difference between Shannon’s G6 and V’s C6 for an example. Overly used air pressure with the compressed vocal cords and with too much throat tension, both are strained and sung. I’m sure V can hit C6, most likely only by sliding, whereas Shannon can access G6 more easily but comparing her skill level to his would also explain this.
Many of the high notes in high note battles are sung by sliding, which is like doing a siren. That’s fine, it’s definitely singing. It could be used in a song, in a limited way, but it could fit. Slides are an easier way to get our vocal cords to stretch and get to our highest possible sung notes. Potential is all vocal range is, so I don’t see why it shouldn’t be considered.
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My issue with high note battles done on Weekly Idol or other variety shows and fan meetings is that there’s usually no rule in place to raise the key by a specific interval (e.g. one note or one semitone) each turn. Participants just have to produce a “note” that sounds higher than the preceding one in order to proceed; hence why there is usually no fixed interval in pitch between notes “sung” in successive attempts.
It’s hard to say whether vocalists really have a specific pitch in mind when it’s their turn to hit a note; or they’re just trying to outdo the previous attempt by going as high as they possibly can — it’s hard to determine whether there was an “intention to hit a specific pitch” in settings where pitch is not being kept track of by participants.
I am well aware that vocal range has no bearing on vocal ability. I’m not engaging in this discussion because I’m trying to get notes added/removed from a vocalist’s range in order to paint them in a better light/diminish their achievements (I would question your assessments of their vocal techniques were that my aim) — I’m just genuinely curious about how vocal ranges are determined on the blog and what can or cannot be considered sung.
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No no I know you’re not. I’m just explaining why the potential aspect is important here. But I get you, I just think you’re thinking about it a bit too deeply haha don’t worry too much
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Nice cover Par Hyo Min3 XD
IMHO your voice would be suitable for Lee Juck’s songs like Fortunately or Lie Lie Lie. Would be great if you do cover to one of those songs in the future
If you don’t mind, what rank you would place your technique at best?
Btw the piano guy, Kwon Wu? i think he is similar with Kim Jin Ho from SG Wannabe ^^
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OHHHH 다행이다! I LOVE that song haha Although I have Onew’s version of it, but yknow. lol I would not rank myself actually, because I feel it would just take away the free will and thought process from you guys if I told you what to think of me. So you’re welcome to decide on your own! ^ ^ Yeah he’s heard that a lot, that he looks like Kim Jinho. lol His name is Kwanwoo btw. haha
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I don’t have a clue about vocal technique but I would place you above JYP for sure lol 😛 😛
Then I’m hoping there would be 다행이다 cover some time in the future ^^
Noted Kwanwoo ssi, I thought Kwon was his surname 🙂
Keep up the good work!!
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Loved this performance. It just says a lot about how well you understand your voice, have mastered the song and the language it is written in, and proves that singers do not have to rely on or use an excess of stylistic methods in their singing, because singing with good technique is just as or even more effective and free of risks. Great legato. All the choices with the arrangement from tempo to phrasing were great too. Reflective
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Awww that is so sweet and meaningful when you put like this, I really appreciate this comment and your compliment. Thank you so so much!
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wow.
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Love your voice, I don’t know why the music industry loves Tenors when we have talented Baritones like you… Your “whatever the note at the end was” was great as well as your deep lows (loved the little runs lol) and your visuals were slaying 🔥🔥 Can’t wait for another cover, keep up with the good job !
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It was okay… I don’t think your voice suits this type of songs.
And i was kinda bothered by your facial expressions. lol
i still enjoyed it though. i love that song!
anyways, keep up the good work! 🙂
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You mean ballads? Well if you don’t like it, that’s okay! Nobody can say your taste is wrong! ^ ^ Thank you and I appreciate the comment!
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I dropped in to re-read a few of the analyses, and noticed this under “Recent Posts” and was like, what?! Very cool 🙂 Park Hyo Shin’s Wildflower is a very difficult song, and requires a lot more flow and precision (as most ballads do) than people realize. I appreciate the effort you’ve put into this, and I’m glad you make Kpop Vocal Analysis go round.
You share scientifically accurate based vocal technique for singing, and that’s why I am so glad to watch and re-watch your videos, because they are another great way of reminding me of what I have learned from my own teacher. There are a lot of vocal teachers out there who have decades worth of incorrect knowledge, so knowing there are honest and knowledgeable teachers like yourself, and my own teacher, sharing healthy technique freely and openly, and trying to help people who love music and want to sing, is so reassuring, and just awesome.
Keep up the good work. I have been wanting to post some of your vocal training videos, particularly the one on support, which so many people really need help understanding, but have held back only because the volume control is a little unstable. I would love it if you could run that through some lovely editing program and normalize it, because I have a number of Quora answers on support, and I think your approach to teaching is warm, casual, and very straightforward and caring. There are a few vocal teachers that I really recommend prospective singing students to watch, due to a combination of correct information as well as teaching ability.
If you’re not already a highly desired vocal teacher, I am certain you will be, regardless of the size of the L.A. area. Cheers! -Tina
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I’ve been improving my video editing! But that I missed up on the volume levels ㅠㅜ Thank you though my dear!!
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Wow wow, your F#4 is so daebak with a baritone.
But I think the F#4 is not your peak. It sounds like you can support higher. Why didn’t you choose G4 or G#4?
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Because I can’t really sustain G#4, my voice becomes too light and heady and G4 it depends on the day for me to sustain it with power.
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I guess no one has yet to do the continuous high notes at the climax. Well, that song is really hard anyway DX
Great cover, by the way ❤
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YES THE F#4 & your lower register is gorgeous ❤ congratz on 10k!!! You deserve every one and more (: (:
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Clearly you have good technique, but this is the difference between a vocalist and a singer. You are a good vocalist but not a good singer. I tried listening with the visuals and without, but the believability factor is missing and it feels empty and disconnected (to me). Not an “anti” by any means. I’m actually a fan of your blog and your analyses of vocal technique are on point.
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By the way, my comments were for this particular song and not your voice in general. It could be a song choice issue (not a genre issue) like what the other reader/ fan said. I’d be curious to hear you singing other songs. Your blog is incredible. Keep up the good work!
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Thank you I appreciate you taking the time to watch as well as your input. I think making a statement about someone not being a good singer with one song is not exactly fair though. But if you don’t hear the believability factor, as much as emotion is subjective, neither I nor anybody can say you’re wrong nor right. If you’re looking to listen to other stuff, I got plenty on my channel. Here is one I am particularly confident in:
You can let me know what you think! ^ ^
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Slay
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This is probably gonna be a silly question but did you lowered the key of the song? If yes, how much? Sounds lower and great in your voice. It also makes me a lot more hopeful, ’cause your voice is lower than Park Hyoshin’s but yet you could put out a very good cover. I always limit myself to sing songs from singers I share the same passaggi or the same tessitura, never going higher or lower if my voice requires to (I’m very afraid of getting too pushed/with bad habits). You’re like breaking a chain in this cover.
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Yes yes I did, I lowered it to make it a baritone version of Kyuhyun’s key. Kyuhyun’s key goes up to Bb, mine goes up to F#, so a whole third below is a baritone version. Park Hyoshin’s key goes up to C. So basically a tritone lower. I also go up a minor third for soprano songs or a major third for mezzo songs.
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